Before I buy a new bike...is Gen 1 or Gen 2 best for boosting? Pros/Cons

[skyydiver]

Okay, so let me give you the quick and dirty.

I used to own a 2004 Busa LE. I loved that bike but made a mistake and sold it. So now I am ready to get back on one but this time I am going to do what I wanted to do last time and that is put a turbo on it.

Before I buy the bike, I am trying to figure out which application will respond best to the turbo...an 07 or an 08.

I only want a Stage I kit...this is more than suffcient for me. I will only be running 91 or 93 octane fuel.

With that said, I am looking for Pro's and Con's to each model year.

Here is what I have so far...

I have been told by Velocity Racing that the 08's have:
-Better Flowing Heads
-More aggressive cam profile
-Stronger Rods
-Stronger output shaft
-Clutch springs are more heavy duty and do not need to replaced like on the 1st Generation

07's have:
-Lower Static Compression ratio so a higher boost level can be run.

Any help or pointers that you guys can give would be great.

Thank You,
Joe

[Mimic]

I'm not Turbo guru BUT I've been doing research for the last while on this since I'm planning to go stage 1 also.

If going with only a stage 1, you're better off with the GEN I. Anything between 03 and 07 are all the same. You can bolt on a stage 1 to a stock motor without any engine mods and make about 240RWHP. You'd need the heavy duty clutch springs but asides from that the rest of the motor can take 6-7LBS boost on stock compression. If you plan on going higher, you'll have to add a base gasket or turbo pistons. Now the great thing about going with something alittle older is that the money you save on the bike pays for the turbo kit.

I'm not sure how much boost if any can be taken by a stock GEN II motor considering it's higher compression. I'm almost certain it would need at least a base gasket or pistons for a stage 1 kit but Richard or Mike @ RCC would be the guys to talk to about that.

I'm personally looking for anything 03-06, low miles, cheap price, bone stock to boost :)

[Tybalt]

Okay, so let me give you the quick and dirty.

I used to own a 2004 Busa LE. I loved that bike but made a mistake and sold it. So now I am ready to get back on one but this time I am going to do what I wanted to do last time and that is put a turbo on it.

Before I buy the bike, I am trying to figure out which application will respond best to the turbo...an 07 or an 08.

I only want a Stage I kit...this is more than suffcient for me. I will only be running 91 or 93 octane fuel.

With that said, I am looking for Pro's and Con's to each model year.

Here is what I have so far...

I have been told by Velocity Racing that the 08's have:
-Better Flowing Heads
-More aggressive cam profile
-Stronger Rods
-Stronger output shaft
-Clutch springs are more heavy duty and do not need to replaced like on the 1st Generation

07's have:
-Lower Static Compression ratio so a higher boost level can be run.

Any help or pointers that you guys can give would be great.

Thank You,
Joe
1st Joe welcome to the site:cheers:
2nd read this thread, its all you need to know:
http://www.busanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282


The RCC boys are here and have new stage 1 kits ready to go for the K8's:smoke:-Duane

[Pinky]

gen I can take more boost

gen II can make more power with less boost

IMHO i prefer to add a secondary system and boost either with lowered compression

[Mimic]

gen I can take more boost

gen II can make more power with less boost

IMHO i prefer to add a secondary system and boost either with lowered compression

Agreed but if he goes with a Gen I, he can run 6# on stock compression and make about 240HP no?

That would be more cost effective. Now if cost is of no matter, then you can easily lower compression on the Gen II and boost it and make more power with the same boost.

all depends on the size of your wallet and how much motor work you want to do.

[Pinky]

6 pounds is around 230s stock from my experience
but gen ones can take 8+ pounds of boost, even more with the right fueling
a gen 2 can only take around 5 pounds in stock form
hp wise im not sure what hp it would show at this time as i havent done enough research on the gen II

[Mimic]

I've heard 8# blowing head gaskets on Gen I on stock compression.

[Pinky]

mine took more then that
and if you wanted to keep it stock comp but willing to id recommend a cometic head gasket those take alot more power before puking out the head

mine burnt the pistons because of an fmu spike
thats why i wont run an fmu ever again

ive seen stock motors take 10-12 pounds of boost with little or no problems (if you can keep the fuel right with it)

[Pinky]

I've heard 8# blowing head gaskets on Gen I on stock compression.
that would be due to a fueling problem ;)

[Mimic]

that would be due to a fueling problem ;)

I think it had somehting to do with WOT on the highway for too long without an intercooler:umm:

[Pinky]

I think it had somehting to do with WOT on the highway for too long without an intercooler:umm:
its actually wot and an fmu
if you get above 120 psi fuel pressure (which an fmu will spike on occasion to) the injectors will lockup which will cause the fueling to go lean for an instant which causes detonation
the injectors are only locked for a microsecond but its enough to pop a head gasket and burn up pistons

been there done that
:thumbs up:

[Mimic]

so I should probably get turbo pistons put it before going stage 1? I'm really leaning towards the supercharger but I don't think it's being offered through any north american distributors anymore.

[Pinky]

stock pistons are good to 400-450 hp
its the fmu that causes the problems with people getting greedy and not upgrading to secondaries after about 7.5 psi
any higher and the fmu becomes hard to control with spiking and such

[Mimic]

My intention is to run only 6# on stock compression. I figured low comp turbo pistons would keep me safe from detonation but if I can get away with just slapping on a stage one to a stock motor that would be great. I don't want more then 230-240 HP anyway

Can't I run 6# on a completely stock motor? Do I even need to put adjustable cam sprockets for 6#?

[Pinky]

My intention is to run only 6# on stock compression. I figured low comp turbo pistons would keep me safe from detonation but if I can get away with just slapping on a stage one to a stock motor that would be great. I don't want more then 230-240 HP anyway

Can't I run 6# on a completely stock motor? Do I even need to put adjustable cam sprockets for 6#?
6 will be just fine
but remember if you get greedy it will bite you
but yes 6 will bolt and go with no mods except the clutch springs and support

[skyydiver]

Thanks guys for all the advice and input. I really appreciate it.

So using an FMU with 6lbs or less of boost is just fine?

Thanks,
Joe

[Mimic]

6 will be just fine
but remember if you get greedy it will bite you
but yes 6 will bolt and go with no mods except the clutch springs and support

I dont' drag race so I don't need all this nutty power. I jsut like the bike to be violent when I snap the throttle:) I have no intention on increasing boost passed 6 and if I did for some crazy reason require more power, I'd have the engine torn down, built right and then upgrade the kit.:thumbs up:

I'nm all about reliability. Our season is way too short for me to blow something so I prefer SAFE reliable setups. That's why I had a 1397 first but it didn't do enough for me so I sold it. That thing was top notch built by my builder who is also top notch. I had him do the work at his house in his garage so he took his time and got it all done immaculately.

[Pinky]

it doesnt have to be a drag bike for power lol
i am building 2 bikes
one race and one street
the race is slated for big power 600+ hp with full motor build
the street will be 300+ hp with stock internals lowered compression with minor mods: lock up and cut tranny (stock is too weak for any power)


i like extreme reliability
secondaries are the preferred route for me for my street kit
i like having that power for play and for riding around
in this area there are 20 or so turbo bikes in this local area lol

but thats just some of the experiences ive learned from




and yes 6 pounds will be fine if tuned right with an fmu
but like ive said i wont run an fmu at all (my preference)

[devils advocate]

"I have no intention on increasing boost passed 6 "..............if you only knew how many times i heard that , only to have the owner wanting more in less than a year.
boost is worse than crack , only takes one time to get hooked.:oh yeah:

[skyydiver]

"I have no intention on increasing boost passed 6 "..............if you only knew how many times i heard that , only to have the owner wanting more in less than a year.
boost is worse than crack , only takes one time to get hooked.:oh yeah:



Great! I knew it...I freaking knew it! I am going to get the Stage I kit, and probably within a couple of months I am going to wish I had got the Stage II kit! I hate this damn hobby! It is worse than a crack habit! :rofl:

[rccturbos]

The 1st generation busa kits we sell are srtup for 7 psi and a map is supplied for that amount of boost. The bike will make 250hp and be trouble free.

The 2008 kits are setup for 3.5 psi and make 230hp, due to the 08s high compression and light valve spring pressures we do not recommend pushing it any more in stock form.

Keep in mind both of these kits are designed to be installed on a stock bike, no engine mods at all. Just a simple bolt on.

Richard

[Mimic]

The 1st generation busa kits we sell are srtup for 7 psi and a map is supplied for that amount of boost. The bike will make 250hp and be trouble free.

The 2008 kits are setup for 3.5 psi and make 230hp, due to the 08s high compression and light valve spring pressures we do not recommend pushing it any more in stock form.

Keep in mind both of these kits are designed to be installed on a stock bike, no engine mods at all. Just a simple bolt on.

Richard

I was under the impression that I would need adjustable cam gears too. I don't need those either?

do I need and undercut trans for a stage one?

[Pinky]

I was under the impression that I would need adjustable cam gears too. I don't need those either?

do I need and undercut trans for a stage one?
stock you dont need the adjustable cam gear

the trans is more of a choice that most go with down the road
stock if not abused they will hold for a little while but if pushed they will start jumping out over time

so its more of a preference of the owner of the bike
i prefer it myself but alot dont mess with it

[skyydiver]

The 1st generation busa kits we sell are srtup for 7 psi and a map is supplied for that amount of boost. The bike will make 250hp and be trouble free.

The 2008 kits are setup for 3.5 psi and make 230hp, due to the 08s high compression and light valve spring pressures we do not recommend pushing it any more in stock form.

Keep in mind both of these kits are designed to be installed on a stock bike, no engine mods at all. Just a simple bolt on.

Richard


Thank you Richard for chiming in here. So what can you tell me about the Gen 2 bike over the Gen 1. I have heard that the cams are more agressive, the heads flow better. The output shaft is thicker/stronger. The piston rods are stronger. and the clutch springs are more heavy duty and so they don't need to be replaced when going with a Stage 1.

Okay...let me throw this out there to. Before I came to know RCC, I called on Velocity Racing to inquire about their Stage 1 kit and the 08 busas. The gentleman who helped me was very nice and very helpful ...he told me their kits are putting out 6 psi. Now when you hear that, given that your kits are 3.5psi, does that much boost (6psi) with an uneasy feeling in your belly?

[skyydiver]

Great...now I am torn again. 3.5psi does not seem like much. Crap...maybe I should consider a stage 2 kit now.

Or better yet, maybe I should go back to looking at the 07 bikes. Ugghhh!!!

[Pinky]

i think a stage 2 gen one bike would be my preference
or build up a gen 2 motor

[texas-buzzard]

I have 900 mi. on an 07 with a Hahn stage 1, 6 lb. boost. completely stock engine. No problems yet:oh yeah:

[Tybalt]

I have 900 mi. on an 07 with a Hahn stage 1, 6 lb. boost. completely stock engine. No problems yet:oh yeah:

welcome to the BusaNation:cheers: Pics?:whistling: -Duane

[MurdaOne]

I've seen bone stock G1's make 320 hp at the tire with the MCXpress kit, and that was on pump gas. (kit came with base spacer)

You can definitely build a nice G1 with the current G1 prices, and its gonna be a hell of a sleeper.

[englandtra]

I just bought a gen I turbo built by DGY. It is good for 16 lbs of boost he said he could set it up for 5 lbs at around 220 hp...I thought if my old busa had 170 and this one has 220 that would be crazy fast...and it was .....but its going back next week to be set back to 16 lbs at around 330 hp and yet I will probably want more....the moral of this story is do it right the first time ...go big or go home.

[englandtra]

13778

13779

And yes that bad ass focus in the back ground is mine too it runs around 27 seconds in the quater at 56 mph